Is Prince The Real Number #1? The Numbers Don’t Add Up
I’ve had thoughts about this all day. There are a few points I am going to make right now.
Here are TWO IMPORTANT INSIGHTS
ITEM #1: Prince is #1 in Retail Sales
Prince sold more physical albums than Urban!
Without digital sales, Keith only sold 134,338 making Prince #1 in retail stores. To me, that is kind of press-release worthy to get out there.
Also…IF Prince added his digital sales from his own web site www.lotusflow3r.com to the mix, he may win the “all in” numbers..depends what he sold digitally.
Keith Urban’s album this week:
ITEM #2: Capitol Records (most likely) Made Urban #1
OK, hear me out on this because this happens a LOT! What most likely happened is that Capitol Records was VERY motivated (for many reasons) to deliver a # 1 ranking to Keith Urban.
Seeing they were only 3,000 units behind the #1 spot, they “did what it took” to ensure the win.
Now, it’s only a theory but it is probably correct.
If they would have lost by such a small margin (3,000 units) some vice president would have lost their job.
When it is that close…you can go out and buy the units at a retail store or better yet, Itunes, to ensure the win, and it would be worth the investment.
The downloads from his OWN site should count on this. I have not seen a Billboard position this close in a while. Something is just NOT adding up!-Dr.FB
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ya something just dosent make sense
I was telling Cam the same thing today. Prince is not backed by a record company that would put out all the stops and the cash to make an album number one.
hopefully he wil discuss this on the upcoming tavis smiley interview and other promo apperences that he will have. oprah r u listining ? ]come to think of it captial records has had alot of number one cds latley hmmm
We witnessed this same thing last year with a a certain Little Wayne. The truth was that there was no way that he “sold” 1 million units. The record company “bought” out what was left to make it so. Prince is #1 and I demand a recount.
Is it possible the sales on Sunday and Monday – previous 2 the NORMAL Tuesday release day were not counted?
http://www.Lotusflow3r.com digital sales SHOULD count.
When U step outside the “system” U have 2 Xpect this. Maybe Capitol records also sabotaged the sound at the L.A. gigs? Hmmmmm
Dr.A
Interesting, I agree that Prince should be in the number one spot..but didn’t they change a rule when Prince gave away albums at the Musicology concert with the purchase of a ticket…..something to the effect that if the album is given away…it doesn’t count as a sale anymore..and essentially..if you joined the website you didn’t purchase the album separately inside the club….it was a part of a package…or given to you as a benefit of joining the club…. I think if he wanted them to count he would have had to charge 77 to join the club then 11.98 for the cd or…he could have broken it up..so that the membership and the cd added up to 77…but since it was all included I think Mr Nelson kinda screwed himself on this one…that is if I”m remembering the rule change for sales counts
Just a thought in addition to what is already presented:
An already troubled industry could barely stand one black eye (#2 spot) because its Prince, after all; but couldn’t stand a complete beat-down (#1 spot) by an Artist without their backing. The signal that would send to all others….whew!
Is it possible that the last minute jump for Urban is about saving face for the Industry?
Remember Prince did do a one album deal with Sony last year. Isn’t Columbia part of Sony? Maybe there getting back at him 4 reneging on the deal last year with Planet Earth. When Prince out of no where made a deal with The Mall newspaper abroad 2 give his Cd away…. Whatever the case something is fishy about this whole thing. Its just 2 close in sales 4 it not 2 b
Columbia knew they had 2 save face……
Oh! its not Columbia its Capital sorry about that…My bad,,:-(
Exactly HOW FAR up Prince’s ass do you plan on being?
Not that i’m saying it’s true, but this sort of thing has been going on in the music industry for the LONGEST time now. Just ask Mariah Carey the lengths Tommy Mattola went to get her #1s.
This is NO grand conspiracy against Prince. Letitgo. ’sides, it’s not like the charts matter to him, right?
Oh, and I think Dr. Acaiberry and Dreamer might have points.
If the “charts” count a week as Tuesday (the usual day for new releases) to the following Monday, it COULD be possible that discs sold on Sunday/Monday didn’t count.
Also, if the Musicology rule is in effect, the digital “sales” wouldn’t count since it was included in the ridiculous membership fee of $77 and not a SPECIFIC “order”.
Just a quick refresher
The artist formerly known as provocative may have nixed his saucier material, but the man behind ”Erotic City” can still stir up controversy. Thanks to the crafty strategy of including a copy of his don’t-call-it-a-comeback album ”Musicology” in the ticket price for his current tour, Prince is sitting near the top of the Billboard chart. ”Prince is ahead of his time and thinks outside the box,” says Randy Phillips, the tour’s promoter, of the ”Musicology” scheme. But record labels cried foul, complaining that the CD-concert combo sets an unfair precedent in tallying sales. Now Billboard’s announced an amended policy that stipulates ”the consumer must be given the option to purchase a CD with a concert ticket for [the sale] to count toward the chart,” says Billboard chart director Geoff Mayfield. However, ”Musicology,” which has moved 800,000 units since its April 20 release, has been grandfathered out of that rule. With 1.5 million fans expected to see Prince this year, he’ll likely have a spot in the top 20 for months. Almost 2 good 2 B true.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,649922,00.html
Even though this only talks about concert tickets..i’m assuming that billboard did the “CYA” thing and included online music clubs membership fees…..anyone know where you can find their rules?
So, Bria lost the bet, right?
We are being told that his old web site sales for Musicology, Billboard would NOT count the sales of downloads from his site.
I dunno. Just waiting to see what’s next.
It’s not suprising that it went down this way (and I doubt it is to Prince either). He tends to be too smart for the suits in this business and they don’t seem to take kindly to that. I’d like to think that they’d eventually get over it, but it doesn’t seem likely, at least not any time soon. Especially considering how P keeps out-smarting them with new ways to handle business to the benefit of himself (the artist) and to no benefit to anybody who had nothing to do with the creation of his work.
It’s not so much discouraging, but it is very annoying that this kind of thing keeps happening. I, along with many others, give Prince serious props on how his business mind works and how much of an influence he is (or at least could be) to many up and coming artists and newcomers to the business in any realm.
I don’t know how they would handle a recount situation or if anyone would even present that as an option, but it would be nice to see it happen if for no other reason, for the principle of it all.
Either way, Lotus Flow3r and Prince remain #1 with us (and we’re the ones who really count, right?).
-D
Kinda interesting reading all these comments..
In response to Dreamer:
You’re mostly right. Record labels and artists argued the concert-issued copies of Musicology were giveaways, not sales. Prince and NPG Records argued that the price of the CD was built into the ticket.
Soundscan’s decision was that albums included in the price of a concert ticket would no longer be included in sales figures. In order to count, the album must be offered to the ticket buyer as a separate, optional purchase. That particular decision, however, applied only to concerts, not websites. What *is* Soundscan’s policy concerning subscription websites? I have no clue. But I’m not holding my breath.
Well if they didn’t count them during Musicology then there’s no reason to think they would count now…..I have to say though…I think Bria wins this bet, simply because technically…if Prince had released the cd via itunes as keith urban did…he would have been number one….but since he chose only target as his outlet…he lost out completely on digital sales… ( i’m sure this fact has to do with the fees that apple charges) but hey, it’s all semantics at this point right? I mean what’s really important..the amount of money that is put in your pocket….or titles…i’ll take the money..give me the #2 spot….lol
I mean seriously let’s think about it..what artist…who was in the music business at the same time as prince is able to be able to debut an album in the number 2 spot….and sell out three venues in a matter of seconds when other artists are canceling shows due to poor record sales……I can’t think of any….
Hyundalasiliah…this seems a bit unfair to me that in order to register as a venue u have to have 2 artists under your label ( do they have to be active artists?)…but i found this on soundSCAM’s website…oh…not to mention the $500.00 annual fee…(pay for charts…kind of like pay for play huh)
VENUE SALES REPORTING PROCEDURE
Record Labels may report the sales of their artists at venues that the artists appear by following the procedure outlined below:
1. On letterhead of the label, please state that you are a label interested in taking part in the Venue Sales Program. Also state how long you have been in business.
NOTE: YOU MUST BE IN BUSINESS FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS.
2. List the artists you wish to report sales for.
NOTE: IT MUST BE MORE THAN ONE ARTIST UNDER THE LABEL THAT YOU WILL BE REPORTING SALES FOR.
whatever happened to the old days when an album CLIMBED the charts, reached number one, and stayed there IF IT WAS GOOD ENOUGH AND POPULAR ENOUGH TO BE THERE???
this whole thing about debuting at number one is a joke.
if Prince himself says he doesn’t care about the charts, why does everyone else? sure, it’s nice to see him get props from RS mag and the charts, but it is OKAY if he’s not number one, seriously.
enjoy the album and pray for a tour… the charts and the powers that be can all eat me. LOL
Sales from his site should not count. As someone already pointed out, he’s not selling just the album there. He’s giving the album away with a membership. If Prince wanted online sales to count, he should have made it available on iTunes… but he didn’t, so he traded a chart position for more profit.
He has to play the cards he was dealt and it was his choice to play the particular game he did.
It’s very funny you (DR. FB) talking about this so much, since Prince keeps saying that it’s not important for him… and about the other point, let me remind you something: Prince did exactly the same thing himself! He bought thousands copies of “The Most Beautiful Girld In The World” CD Single himself.
Just so you know…
You might also want to consider that many thousands of the Lotusflow3r cd sets were bought in the USA and resold to people overseas via Ebay and others because the set was only available in the US. Therefore Prince’s numbers are more like world-wide sales consolidated into the US charts only. How did Prince debut on the sales charts this past week in any other country than the US? He didn’t.
Prince was not above manipulating the numbers either when he was with WB. The Most Beautiful Girl In the World was a manufactured #1 according to what I’ve heard.
That said, is it really that important?
I bet Prince does care and wonder if maybe the doctor is having Prince’s back in this is all and speaking for him. Hmm. To be that close to number 1 and not make it sure would make me care.
Love how people are bringing in facts from 15 years ago instead of the subject at hand and that is what happened to those 17,000 cd’s Hits reported???
All the rest is just tired bs being repeated over and over again.
I want to know about the subject at hand and nothing else. Where are those cd’s and why is there such a huge gap between billboard and hits? it does not make sense and no one is responding about that.
His site sales should not count because you can not just buy the album there. The albums are only available to those who buy a membership for $77. This is just like bundling Musicology with ticket sales.
thank you 3rd party
Wow my baby is 1
I want to see the results for next week… call me just curious cuz it really doesn’t matter…
Sorry to be blunt but… who cares about charts anyway? I cared about what was on Lotus Flow3r that’s all… and that definitely does not include the mess that is Elixer.
I kinda want him to be #1… but with the album’s limited release… I’m cool with #2. But I do understand the perception which comes with being #1.
YAWN!.. Prince is numero uno in my heart!
thnak u dr.f i just hope something can be done about the trickery here. It is very clear to me that shady business was going on to keep Prince out of the #1 spot and it all has to do with how Prince has handled his buisness in the music industry…he has totally out smarted these idiots. I hope all artists speak out in regards to what has clearly been wrong. I know Prince is above this as he knows how crooked the industry is….capitol records needs to be “called out” loud and clear on this one…we love Prince and some of us is just not taking sh.. like this no more….dr.f thanks and please do what you can, we need to be heard…this is just the beginning.
@3rd Party
It’s called HISTORY. Nothing wrong with it. Or are you only allowed to bring it up when it BENEFITS Prince? Also, according to many, many, MANY comments made by the man over the years – he could care less about chart position. If that’s not true, it sure would be nice for him to tell us THA TRUTH.
Also, learn your facts. HITS is a trade gossip rag with best guess/ESTIMATES. Soundscan is the ONLY thing keeping track of record sales. Kinda like how movie studios “project” how well a movie opens over the weekend. Their “estimates” stand until the final tally on Sunday night.
But, again, Prince doesn’t care about charts. And is the album being number TWO really going to affect your opinion of it?
You whine more than Prince does. He’s lucky he sold more than 100K copies after years of bashing his own fans.
I’d have to agree with many above….for it to be so close with a limited release – well, it’s clear how popular he is. It’s fantastic how well he’s done (and continues to do) at crafting a career for himself that’s what he wants….instead of being a “slave” to a big corp. record company….kudos to Prince – he’s an inspiration….his focus is unparalleled (not to mention all his sexy songs…tee hee!!!!) Can’t wait for the next Prince event – p u r e J O Y !!!
“.. It’s called HISTORY. Nothing wrong with it. Or are you only allowed to bring it up when it BENEFITS Prince? …”
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That is just a silly thing to say, sorry. It really annoys me when ppl say stuff like this. HISORY, as you say,is what makes him do this too. So it really doens’t make sense saying stuff like that.
@ Leon.
Hi Prince
(waving) How are ya!?
Like I said B4 Prince has went a long way and did it with no record label and still managed to make it #2 (so they say) To me that screams WOW!!! What a huge eye opener to the rest of the industry…Not only that Lotusflower is gonna be HUGE…
justmemuchlove Says:
“That is just a silly thing to say, sorry. It really annoys me when ppl say stuff like this. HISORY, as you say,is what makes him do this too. So it really doens’t make sense saying stuff like that.”
Silly? You mean as silly as insinuating that there’s some VAST conspiracy against Prince to hold him back from getting the #1 record for the week? And to make it by a mere 20,000 copies?
Also, what does “HISORY” make him do? Buy thousands of copies of “tMBGITW” to make it hit #1?
If this were an election, this one would be headed for a recount, like the Minnesota US Senate race, which Al Franken narrowly leads.
Hits Daily Double and Soundscan were so far apart. Prince sold 185,956 CDs according to Hits and 168,458 according to Soundscan. That’s a difference of 17,498. Keith Urban’s total’s were off too, by only by 5,745 units (CDs and downloads). According to Hits, Urban moved 177,292 units. Soundscan had Urban at 171,547 units sold.
Now comes the real chart test_seeing whether LotusFlow3r can thrive on the charts after its opening week success.
Prince just released what will undoubtedly be a contender for record of the year at the 2010 Grammys, now he needs to relentlessly promote it, with his first full scale US tour in five years and talk show appearances, where he talks about where those 17,498 where those missing CDs are (Area 51???).
Also keep in mind that Target may have “bought” some of Prince’s CD’s to artificially boost his sales.
There’s strong evidence to indicate Walmart has done this with exclusive deals in the past (such as AC DC), and no reason to believe that Prince did not work it into the contract here, as well – where Target agrees to buy, say, 10,000 CDs of Lotusflow3r to help boost sales. That could have be part of the contract in getting this Prince deal.
So it goes both way, Urban may have gotten help from his label, but it’s just as likely – if not MORE likely – that Target helped boost Prince’s sales.
@the
“Silly? You mean as silly as insinuating that there’s some VAST conspiracy against Prince..”
No one is taking about a conspiracy against P. That’s what you make of it.! If the numbers dont add up they don’t. If he is the one who should’ve been nr 1.. well he should have. I don’t know enough about it all. But if there is a gap. I would like to know more about it too.
And of course I meant to say HISTORY.(sorry saw it too late to correct) But about THAT .. read my post again. I do not for a second believe that you dont know what I’m talking about! But you know what.. Dont ask me about him buying copies of a single from more then 10 years ago. You’re the one who know him personaly and you’re and artist yourself.. Go talk to him about it.
Eh,
None of this much matters to me. While I wish that people would stop bitching because the exclusive deal with Target is quite a coup, I do understand that people need something to complain about. One moment, his fans say charts don’t matter, and the next they say it does.
We will have a lot of answers next week, when we see how much in sales “drop” on the Keith Urban release. If it is more than 50%, I think it would definitely warrant a need for an investigation….. i think some NUMBERS have been tampered with ya’ll
@justmemuchlove:
“No one is taking about a conspiracy against P. That’s what you make of it.! If the numbers dont add up they don’t. If he is the one who should’ve been nr 1.. well he should have. I don’t know enough about it all. But if there is a gap. I would like to know more about it too.
But you know what.. Dont ask me about him buying copies of a single from more then 10 years ago. You’re the one who know him personaly and you’re and artist yourself.. Go talk to him about it.”
No one’s talking about a conspiracy against P? Really? You DID read “Item #2″, right? That’s the one where Dr. KA basically states that Capitol ““did what it took” to ensure the win”. I wholeheartedly agree with you when you said “I don’t know enough about it all”, but your buddy Dr. KA is apparently knows enough and has some insider information. Or, at least, he knows enough to feel comfortable with posting his “theory” on a public blog as FACT.
Also, I didn’t ask you ANYTHING about him buying “a single from more then (sic) 10 years ago”. Know why? Because that’s a FACT. And now when there’s an accusation of this practice supposedly affecting him negatively, people are acting like this shadiness hasn’t been a longstanding occurrence in the music industry and poor widdle P is a victim? Wrong.
Lastly, you don’t know me pal, so save your sarcasm for someone that cares.
I have been eluding to the same thing as miko4u. I can’t wait til next Wednesday…I will bet my all…Prince ’s numbers will skyrocket while Keith will drop to a tremendous low…which imo will mean the “proof was in the pudding” Prince won the #1 spot “hands down”….billboard/capitol records put sh…it the game as usual. Prince remains “unstoppable” and will always be #1 in out hearts. Shout out to Bria…we love u too hang in there with Prince…. he will take good care of u.
Woke up ! An earth quaking experience. The other guy won over Prince cos it was always gonna end that way.
Thank you.
“..No one’s talking about a conspiracy against P? Really?..”
Yes really “tha Truth” You just did..
“…your buddy Dr. KA is apparently knows enough and has some insider information. Or, at least, he knows enough to feel comfortable with posting his “theory” on a public blog as FACT..”
Yeah so.. and.. If the Dr. knows more he knows more.
“..And now when there’s an accusation of this practice supposedly affecting him negatively, people are acting like this shadiness hasn’t been a longstanding occurrence in the music industry and poor widdle P is a victim? Wrong…”
Thats right keep it going! Keep blowing it up just you’ll have something to bitch about. If the numbers dont add up they dont. No “victim” in this case.
“..Lastly, you don’t know me pal..”
Really,, wanna talk about “not knowing me.” Good.. !That means you do understand what I’m saying. If you like his work you go buy his album to enjoy. If you want to the show you buy a ticket to go the show. The relationship begins and end right there for YOU and for me.
Whether or not Prince “cares” about the charts really isn’t relvant to the issue of reporting sales.
If the Soundscan charts are to be considered “The Source” and are reported as such the count should be accurate and legitimate.
In this instance, the numbers are all over the place leading to speculation.
All hanging chads should be counted!
Its clear 2 c that had Prince sold lotusflow3r in the traditional manner there would B no contest 4 #1 at the same time it think there will always B something negitive said bcus had he made #1 then sum1 would claim its bcus of the price. So other than his true fans I dont think it matters 2 him anyway. You know when I inquired about the quanty of cd’s at my local Target mid openingday the sales lady on the phone made the mistake of telling me “Prince has had his day” yo know I had 2 preach – skol her on his last ten years!!! She was Shocked!
Well regardless of the inaccurate numbers, flawed system, and corrupt people, I have to give Prince major props. Not just on this particular project and how he managed to pull #2 (or #1, whichever way u wanna look at it) when only distributing thru one outlet, but on how he manages to try something new each release and makes a success out of it. It sets a great example to other artists who care to pay him and his business skills any attention so they can use some of his tactics or come up with some of their own so as to free themselves from the restraints of a label and make bank by themselves.
None of the big wigs want to see an artist succeed on his own, so it’s no shock that they’d throw a wrench in the game when it comes to his ability to win over them.
It’s another form of entertainment if u ask me… watching the suits scramble when something Purple gets ready to drop.
@ the Thruth
“..a single from more then (sic)..”
yep .. thanks haha I noticed
yo prince this is your fan